PP: This is an interesting endeavour by John HX Fremlin to sum up ancient history from the Flood until the Roman era.. He tried together with the counsel of friends to date post Flood history in Western Europe, and in my opinion he did a wonderful job, even though a lot of it is guesswork and interpretation. but that is par for the course in history science. Enjoy
By John Hext fremlin – http://www.johnhextfremlin.com/neolithic_man.htm
Introduction to Chapter One
The Key events in this Alternative History are:
1. Year 0 creation 4004 BC thus metal iron copper Bronze all being used up until Babel and beyond but after the dispersion there was a loss of technologies among some people groups while others retained them.
2. The Flood annomundi 1656 or 2348 BC.
3. Division in the days of Peleg annomundi 1757 or 2247 BC. The Ice age started in 2260 BC and was seen by the survey teams and Britain and Europe covered by Ice by 2247 BC.
4. The Founding of Babel annomundi 1770 or 2234 BC and takes 43 yrs to build.
5. The dispersion in 1813 annomundi or 2191 BC .
6. Egypt founded by Misraim eb1 annomundi 1816 or 2188 BC (Mizraim is Menes)
7. Birth of Abraham annomundi 2008 or 1996 BC.
8. Exodus annomundi 2513 or 1491 BC (Ice age ends at this date).
For other possible mechanisms for the Ice Age I refer the reader to “Speak through the Earthquake Wind and Fire” by Graham A. Fisher who suggests an Icy Planet at the time of the Dispersion from Babel but since we have other mechanisms it is advisable therefore to state that there was a water vapour canopy at the time of the Flood (Oard’s date 2346 BC), but the Ice age proper by 2260 BC seen by the survey teams.
After the Flood there was a limited supply of metal and people had this technology from the Creation right through to Babel. It is noteworthy that Iron was used immediately after the flood although the survey teams might have had to create stone tools to aid them in their work mining for tin, copper (Bronze), Iron, and gold & Silver Etc., and particularly after the Flood the earth was rich in minerals. Our History opens with Chapter one and is therefore post-Flood from the Ice Age to the Romans. The Reader should find these chapters of particular interest. — John HX Fremlin (Author)
Chapter One:- The Sidonians:-
Gadir was a son of Poseidon (Sidon) or Agadir from which the port of Gadir (or Gades) was built in Spain arround 2252 BC and was a port for shipping minerals etc. between there and Britain. Some mining of tin and copper was done in Southern England at this time in Cornwall. It must be bourne in mind in this connection that Sidon was the son of Canaan and the surveys for tin- and copper-mining were –I suggest– carried out by the Sidonian Phoenicians who were Canaanites. Thus after the flood some metal was available for working in Bronze and Iron but perhaps notably Iron.
The Survey Teams probably first had to make stone tools to aid them in their work of mining for minerals and metals. Thus I am suggesting that the Sidonians at this time carried out the mining in Britain (Cornwall) and also built some “Surveying Monoliths” (Reff; Darrell K White).
By 2260 BC the Ice Glaciers covered Europe (Last world survey to 2252 BC.) By 2247 BC Britain was covered in ice and at this time the Japethites did not inhabit Britain but found it a waste land only fit for hunter gatherers. I am suggesting here that the ‘hunter gatherers’ of 2247 BC were thus a remnant of Sidon’s family who had built the surveying monoliths and did mining in Cornwall for tin and copper when it was checked out by the early surveyor team which rapidly degenerated into stone-age cultures of what [mainstream] archaeologists term the “Palaeolithic Industry”, of whom probably the earliest, remains have been found in Swanscombe, Kent.
I suggest that these were the earliest Neanderthals descended from Sidon’s men and got lost in the “Hinterlands at this time.” Mining for copper and tin was probably carried out on a small scale up to the time of Dispersion from Babel (2191 BC) when even more metal working technologies were lost, but probably any metal tools that they possessed were passed on down through the various families until later they became “common place” again.
Chapter Two:- North Scotland and Scandinavia under Cichol Gricenchos.
Cichol Gricenchos was a Formorian/Canaanite chieftain who was born ca 2250 BC and became chieftain of the Formorei (Picts) and began his fishing hunter gathering industry 200 yrs before the Battle of Magithe with Partholon in Ireland in 2025 BC. He and his Neanderthal Tribes (which is what Darrell and myself are suggesting) came and occupied Scandinavia (S. Gusten Olsen: “Incredible Nordic Origen’s) 200 yrs before Magithe in 2225 BC.
Thus these industries are termed by archaeologists: “The Mesolithic Industry.” It is noted here that the village of Scara Brae was an outpost after the Flood in those early days and we suggest that it was built by Cichol Gricenchos between 2200 and 2000 BC., and thus that these were the combined Mesolithic and Neolithic Industries and that the Formorians turned more to agriculture and farming after the Battle of Magithe in 2025 BC. Thus these industries were (this author conjectures) “A Mixed Economy of Fishing hunter-gathering and agriculture.
The Mammoth Sabre toothed Tiger, the Cave Bear, and Wooly Rhinoceros were hunted by these hunting parties. It must be noted here in this connection that the terms Palaeolithic Mesolithic Neolithic and copper, bronze, and iron, are here confined to industries only and not ages. Thus the Time of Division in Peleg’s day is dated to 2247 BC or 1757 annomundi.
A discovery of Ireland was made 140 yrs after the flood in 2208 BC by Ardna son of Nin or family of Nimrod (also Caananites but not related to Sidon’s family) and were Cushites. He did not stay long in Ireland but tested the soil and took samples back to Babylon, symbolic of laying claim to Ireland but he never returned.
The German colonization by the German Neolithic and copper Industries people took place in 2193/2192 BC although 2192 BC would probably be more accurate near the Babel dispersion 155 years after the Flood if we take the end of the Flood to be about 2347 BC, then 2347 – 155 = 2192 BC would be the time for this colonization (HLH Compendium of World History).
I suggest that Ootzy the Ice man preserved in Ice also lived at the same time and was therefore a contemporary (Review of German Neolithic Industries People by JohnHXF from History Player)
Thus the copper axe would have been a very useful tool to negotiate the ice age glaciers of the Alps at this time. Their HQ was probably at Kolne Deutz hence the name Deutches (German). (I suggest that the Sidonians kept their metal working technologies a secret from other peoples at the time they did the mining in Cornwall).
The German colonization is verified by HLH (Compendium of World History and the Bayerische Chronik. The building of the city of Trier (Not the oldest in Europe) and colonization took place 2000 yrs before Caesar (79 BC) which would make 2079 BC for the founding of Trier.
It must be pointed out in this connection that although Ardna discovered Ireland 140 yrs after the flood in 2208 BC that Cichol Gricenchos at best passed Ireland by in 2208 BC and saw the place where his father had shown him for fishing hunting and gathering but was in Scotland or at any rate North Scotland to start his industry in 2225 BC 200 yrs before the Battle of Magithe with Partholan who had colonized Ireland 10 yrs before the battle in 2035 BC.
Chapter 5. The Neolithic Industry. Samothes in Britain. (England)
The Neolithic Industries’ colonization of Britain occurred 200 yrs after the Flood (Holinshed’s chronicles). Some of these people were hunter-gatherers although they were probably combined industries with hunter gatherers, probably poorer people who only used flint tools, while the agricultural community most likely had flint and copper tools.
As we have already seen from the review of the German Neolithic industries which were about 2192 BC, 500 yrs after the end of the Flood (2347 BC), even earlier than Samothes, we noted the Ice man Ootzy had a copper axe to negotiate his way through the Ice age glaciers in the Alps. So no doubt the “Gricenchos Neanderthal sp Groups also coexisted along side of them at this time. In our next chapter we come to a Neanderthal led invasion of England by Albion .
I would just briefly mention that Samothes reached France about 2187-86 BC before coming to England just after the Flood of Gallia.
Chapter Six:- Albion in England:-
The Samotheans were children of Japeth, therefore Samothes is called by Moses Meschec. There was a land bridge during the Ice age till the meltdown in 1491 BC.
Albion invaded England with his Formor /Neanderthal groups (as we conjecture that the Neanderthals were children of Sidon and thus Canaanites acc. to our and Darrell’s hypothesis) and defeated Bardus in France (Britain was joined to France during the Ice Age with landbridge) and the date of his arrival in present day England were the Northern parts of the Celtic Kingdom in 2088 BC untill 2044 BC after his defeat. Thus the Neanderthals were in these Northern parts for many years after this and were still here at the time of Partholan colonizing Ireland in 2035 BC.
Formorian Chieften Cichol Gricenchos was responsible (we suspect) for the colonies in Northern Scotland and Scandinavia arround 2225 BC and he simply passed Ireland by in about 2208 BC 140 yrs after the flood (2348 BC) but was born in 2250 BC making him a mature leader when he started his industry in Scotland etc in 2225 BC, 200 yrs before the Battle of Magithe, so must have seen the fishing lands that he claimed and tried to take from Partholan in 2025 BC.
Trier fits a different chronology and was colonized 2000 yrs before Caesar (79 BC) and so around 2079 BC being a reasonable average by the Assyrians (HLH compendium of World History), by Trebetta, son of Assyrian king Ninius (See combined Industries tables).
Scandinavia was settled 62 years after the dispersion from Babel in 2129 BC by King Erick and the Goths (S Gusten Olsen Incredible Nordic Origins.)
Chapter 7. Partholan :- Neolithic Industry in Ireland Annomundi 1969 or 2035 BC.
Partholan was the first to colonize Ireland and brought the plough and oxen with him and probably used some copper tools as well as the usual flint implements and is also said to have introduced beer drinking from gold cups and his colony lasted about three hundred years, which was 313 after the flood.
Abraham was born annomundi 2008 or 1996 BC. Thus ten years later Sidon’s son Cichol Gricenchos invaded Ireland discovered Partholan there, so in order to try and gain his fishing grounds fought the Battle of Magithe in 2025 BC and Partholan defeated and killed Cichol Gricenchos and the rest of the Formorei in 2025 BC although there might have been a remnant who settled down to farming. Thus most of Partholan’s coloney was wiped out by a plague although some members of his tribe might have survived till the time of Nemed who arrived in Ireland in 1736 BC; But before that we have to deal with Britan Male who arrived in Scotland in 1766 BC which is our next brief chapter.
Chapter 8. Britan Mael colonizes Scotland 1766 BC:-
Our next colony arrived in 1766 BC in Scotland and colonised it. This is not to be confused with the later coloney of Hu Gadarn; whom according to the Cambrian Journal arrived in England in 1788 BC and some 22 yrs difference in the dates. Hu G arrived later in ca. 1421 BC in Southern England plus also Wales and were a bronze using people which we will turn to in a later chapter.
Partholan’s colony in Ireland ruled about 269 years and there was a gap of 30 yrs to Nemed in which Partholan’s coney was wiped out by a plague which brings us to 1766 BC and a line of British kings descended not from Brutus but Britan Mael.
Tools of Neolithic industry type have been found in burial chambers during this period and also copper tools I would however like to remind the reader that if a certain culture was labeled say ‘stone age’ or ‘copper’, this does not preclude the use of some bronze and/or iron (Used in the construction of ploughs or as leg irons for horses) and they searched for gold as well, and all during the last phases of the Ice age. Britain Mael (after whom Britain takes its name) was a grandson of Nemed who came 30 years before the arrival of the Nemedians into Ireland who arrived in 1736 BC
Chapter 8a Nemed in Ireland 1736 BC
The Nemedians under Nemed came to Ireland in 1736 BC (All Dates are from genealogy spread-sheet by Mr Darrell White) and ruled Ireland from 1736 BC until 1520 BC which is a period of 216 yrs, (Annals of ClonMacnoise, see above) . Many Lochs broke out in his reign but the land bridge between Britain and Ireland and France finally gave way in 1491 BC, at the time of the Exodus.
The Nemedians won some victories over the Formorians (Note: these Formores are from North Africa and descendents of Sidon and a bronze using people) but were pirates and took Ireland eventually from the Nemeds who had pretty much the same industries as their predecessors and were of the late Neolithic and copper industries called by some archaeologists “Chalcolithic Industries”, but as we’ve already seen from a previous chapter were in fact combined industries. There is some evidence for this from the burial chambers of which “New Grange” is a typical example.
There is also evidence from the North Sea of the different stone age cultures living side by side of each other contemporaneously. In most cases it seems that the hunter gatherers raided the land of the agriculturalists in some cases ; of which Cichol Gricenchos was a typical example. The descendents of the hunter gatherers (Citidals of Mystery Penguin Books) have been called by some archaeologists the “Secondary Neolithic” as is the case with the Formores adopting agriculture and settling down after the Battle of Magithe with Partholan in 2025 BC.
Our next chapter deals with Ireland and Britain after the Ice age melt down in 1491 BC. In conclusion therefore to this chapter I am suggesting that the remains of mammoth; wooly etc, are the remains and result of the Ice age melt down at the tine of the Exodus annomundi 2513 or 1491 BC.
Chapter 10 Hiber Scot explores Ireland ca 1445 BC:-
In ca 1445 BC Hiber Scot explores Ireland and claims it for his tribe who came 400 yrs later in 1045 BC and also Scotland. During this period Ireland was a wasteland and uninhabited, Although some eb1 tools are found by archaeologists for this period it is not enough for a transition to eb1.
After the meltdown there were flowers and meadows etc, and there was production of meat and honey at this time. The Firbolgues’ sons of Dela arrived Ireland in 1304 BC and brought the early bronze industry with them while the bronze industry was introduced into England and Wales by Hu Gadarn and his men (descendents of Japheth) who arrived in England in 1421 BC (Chronology Revision) and built Stonehenge at this date as is evidenced by the Mycenean Bronze Dagger and flint arrowheads found at Stonehenge.
The Date for Hiber Scott exploring Ireland was 1477 BC. (See Darrell’s emails at http://www.johnhextfremlin.com) He made a claim for his tribe at this date when the Milesians under Miles colonised Ireland four hundred plus years later when they came in David’s days 1055 to 1015 BC. Hiber Scot came to Ireland in 1477 BC while there were a remnant of the Nemeds there ruling untill 1304 BC when Ireland was a waste land after the Ice age melt down in 1491 BC at the time of the Exodus.
So while some of the Nemedians escaped the catastrophe, there may have been survivors; thus I suggest that both concepts would be true. According to the Annals of the Four Masters a battle takes place about 1520 BC with the second wave of Formorians; but none prior to the Firbolgue occupation in arround 1304 BC according to this thread of Irish History.
Thus 1304 BC to 1504 BC = 216 yrs and to 1736 BC = another 216 yrs making a grand total rule of the Nemeds rule 432 yrs. In Keating we have two different versions speaks of African Formorians fleeing the battle which sounds like 1480 BC to 1451 BC and three other battles happening about that time.
The Lebor Gebala (Irish book of invasions ) speaks of three battles against the Formorians when four lakes burst forth between 1480-1490 BC. (This being a result of the Ice age melt down at the time of the Exodus in 1491 BC). It specifies a 217 year period assuming 1304 BC + 217= 1521 BC adding another 215 yrs to 1736 BC Beginning of Nemed’s rule totals again 432 yrs therefore using 1520 BC as a round figure makes things a bit easier.
In Keating in the annals of Clonmacnoise it specifies that there was a battle 50 yrs before the Firbolgue arrival in Ireland in 1354 BC with the Nemeds but I suggest the Nemeds ruled Ireland while the Formorians on Tory Island with a remnant of each tribe so therefore no overall control of Ireland being as it was a wasteland at this time.
Chapter 11 The Firbolgues in Ireland and reintroduction of Bronze Industry eb1 1304 BC.
Our next arrivals came to Ireland with the introduction of the Bronze industry (eb1) in 1304 BC while there was a remnant of nemeds ruling till this time and they ruled Ireland for 37 yrs untill the tuatha dedannans took it in 1267 BC and were there according to this chronology about 197 yrs +15 = 212 yrs untill Miles Gaytholos and Scotta took Ireland in David’s days 1055 to 1015 BC This was Middle Bronze two mb2 stimulated by Solomon,
Chapter !2 England Brutus 1152 eb1 and mb1 in Britain (England).
It is said that when Brutus came to Britain after the fall of Troy in 1184 BC he landed in Totness in Cornwall but that when he arrived he found some giants. I suggest that these giants were a remnant of the previous colony of Hu G’s men, although it has been said that there were Canaanite giants in the lands or a remnant thereof and Brutus saved one of these giants for combat with Corenius who threw Gog Magog over his shoulders and where the deed was done to this day is called Gog Magog’s Leap.
The Late Bronze industry started about 722 BC with a reference here to Darrell See emails at http://www.johnhextfremlin.com This concludes this small chapter and the line of Brutus which would be too time consuming . Late Bronze 722 – 585 BC
Chapter 13 Iron A and Iron B in Britain to the Roman Invasions of Caesar.
At the end of this line of kings of Brutus there was civil war and these were the Latin Celts with Iron (a) 546-539 BC with new technology of iron swords and weaponry Iron (B) was in the days of Morindus King of Britain 330 BC to 300 BC (references Compendium of World History HLH) and the two invasions of Caesar took place in 55 and 54 BC . The Romans conquered Britain in AD 43 (from memory) and the Picts were troublesome throughout the period of occupation so this is why Hadrian’s wall was built to keep the Picts in the North. The Romans left Britain in Ad 410 as the Goths and vandals Huns &c were attacking Rome so the legions were recalled back to Rome.
This concludes the alternative History Paper
John HX Fremlin.
18 thoughts on “An Alternative History of Spain, Scandinavia, Germany, NW Europe, Britain and Ireland”
Authors please note: – The date for the arrival of Brutus in Britain is 66 years after the Trojen war dated to 1184 BC so according to Darrell White’s new information the date for the arrival of Brutus is 1184 – 66 years= 1118 BC John
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Hi LU, You might like to publish my take on the “Re-evaluation of Ancient Man in Britain” There are some interesting time or industries charts showing conventional dating being translated to Ussher chronology to do with the “Rate Study” Please note however any conventional dating that exeeds 6000 conventional years is here rejected by this author.
The Linear correspondence clearly shows the conventional dates along with the Ussherian chronology John
Nice to hear from you. I certainly WILL take a look at it sometime, as your stuff is always interesting, but right now – (as I told another publishing candidate, Ross, also recently)- I am preoccupied with OTHER irons in my fire, and it is going to take TIME!! So pray or me that I will get time soon. that is also the reason I haven’t publishe much substantial recently. Still the hits are going fine here. God bless!
Hi Lu yes I’ll do that for you and many thanks for your interesting comment. By the way I will personally bear witness that I have actually seen the Giant of Canderha province in Afganistan confronting US Troops on youtube.
I don’t know for the life of me why evolutionists have to lie about it and cover it up. It is in my view a totally pointless exercise for the Smithsonian Museum to say giants dont exist when I know to the contrary that they do exist and no so-called Federal or Us Government agent is going to silence me because if they try the more I’ll keep on about it. Meanwhile Lu Much love and all the Best John
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Hi Lu Do you think you could publish my take on the Re-evaluation of Ancient Man in Britain because Bill Cooper and myself have been doing a very interesting study on giantson which both of us are in aggreement plus of course the conversion of some conventional chronology into the Uss
her biblical time line as I think this needs a mention on your website
Wpuld also be greatfull if you could publish “chronology of “neolithic man” part one and part two.Many thanks John
Hi Lu if you could publish my article on the”Re-evaluation of Ancient Man
in Britain Iwould be greatful to you as we are now in the year 2018 and the linear correspondence in particular is importent bearing in mind its conversion to Ussher chronology this being the most importent chart in my view; but if you could also publish the other two charts at “Chronology of “Neolithic Man”” Parts one and two I’d also be very greatful however the Re-evaluation Link is the more importent one. Once again many thanks John
Hi John. Long time no see.
I have to look into that, since my views on Ussher’s timeline has drastically changed by 500 years or so, since I saw this amazing video which puts the Flood at 3000 BC. Have a look your self. It might change your entire vision and.. timeline!!
Tell me what you think after that.
Hi Lu I with the greatest respect I still prefur the Ussher chronogy as it is something I have been brought up with Ussher and taught that the creation took place in 4004 BC and the flood 1656 years later after creation so I would find it very hard to use another chronology as it would undermine the linear correspondence which I have wodked hard with and have consulted with Mike Fischer on.
I think it would be wrong in my view to add to the Ussher chronology so if you dont mind Lu I would rather stay with the Ussher time line same as Bill Cooper and Darrell White. Manythanks for your reply Lu
However I will look at the video to see what it says and I’ll ask Bill Cooper and Darrell for their views and then I’ll get back to you Lu so will catch up with you later. John
Hi Lu I cannot accept that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years. thus infact they were in Egypt and Caanan for 430 years. That is to say they were in Caanan 215 years and Egypt 215 years. Thus 430 years – 215 years = 215 years for time in Egypt ; and therefore I submit that the Ussher chronology is correct and that the Ussher chronology does not allow for gaps in the text.
And in conclusion after having iistened to the video I caanot and will not accept adding 500 years to the Ussher chronology which with the greatest of respect is a Secular and uniformitarian concept that seriously undermines the Ussher chronology and the biblical text. Given Ussher,s date for creation 4004 BC – 1656 after creation = 2348 BC for Usshers flood date.
Thus my article on my website Re-evaluation of Ancient Man in Britain needs to be evaluated exactly in line with the linear correspondence and Ussher chronology plus the corresponding conventional historical dating allowed here for this purpose. By all means Lu if going back to 3000 BC for the date of the flood is what you believe it to be then you must go with that concept; But please also allow me to stay with my timeline of 4004 BC for creation and 2348 BC as Ussher’s date for the flood. Many thanks John
That’s OK John. You are a free agent to decide for your self. I rather decided to confess to myself and my readers that I was wrong thinking the Flood was around 2345 BC, and that this video was a great revelation to me that the dates were messed up by the Pharisees in their later translations of the Bible, by around 500 years. As they say, “The hardest words in the English language are ‘I was wrong.'”
I love you anyway John.
I have already made a comment. Just answer my question on my re-evaluation of ancient man in Britain Link and whether you can publish it or not. Your diffrence of oppinion with me on Ussher chronology is not importent to me but my “Pdf” article is” and would like to see it being promoted by your post blog Thanks Lu John
Hi John. December is a very busy time. Cheers